• Registered: 11-02-2011
  • Posts: 1

Topic: NFDC

This will no doubt be quite a controversial topic in here from what I have read on the forums to date with as many supporters as those against.

Personally this is one of those things where I can never make my mind up as one day ill think "yeah what they are trying to do is admirable" and then another day ill think "what a waste of time, effort and money"

We now have many large construction companies and clients insisting that demolition companies who work for them must be NFDC members as this proves competence, yet many witness NFDC members breaking the rules and even the law and completely flouting everything the NFDC says it prides itself on and the NFDC do nothing about it.

NFDC top brass insist that the organisation has changed and that it is open to all yet they still have their own members running the site audit scheme, it may have changed from having to be nominated by 2 existing member companies but you still have to pass 2 site audits which when you look at the paperwork would be very simple to make someone fail if they wanted to keep them out. Again they say they have changed and yet when they get complaints about their members from outsiders what do they do about it? From what I hear and witness they sweep it under the carpet because "johnny is a good ol boy and has been a member for years!". Now from what I hear they are also going to become SSIP registered so that anyone in the NFDC automatically qualifies for the SSIP scheme, is this because a lot of their members cant or wont attain CHAS or similar?

Has the NFDC changed in the last 10yrs or is it still a club only the people they want in it can join?

  • Registered: 08-02-2011
  • Posts: 19

Re: NFDC

Isnt this always going to be one of those things where people on the outside looking in will criticise what they dont fully know about or understand?

The NFDC I think has the right thoughts and attitude towards the modern world of demolition, no doubt there are those within its membership who do things wrong but isnt that the same with any organisation? The police are supposed to obide by and uphold the law but how many times do we see officers in the papers or on the news for commiting offences? Maybe they do react to complaints but do not publicise the fact that they have had to do so, who knows, only the NFDC can answer that question.

As for it still being an old boys club etc im not so sure, yes certainly there is the possibility with the audit scheme that they could keep people out if they wanted to, but is it in thier interest to keep companies outside of the Federation? I wouldnt have thought so I would have thought it in thier interest to have as many people as members as possible to add more weight to what they have to say.

As for SSIP what difference does it really make there are so many SSIP schemes out there now that its not exactly hard to get your company qualified, there are SSIP schemes that ask you to fill in a few forms and pay your money and thats that as long as you have the paperwork etc to back it up you qualify.

Having recently been on and passed the new demolition managers course I can say without a doubt that they are if nothing else innovative and forward thinking.

Yes I do feel concern that some of its members do not abide by the federation rules and I would also like to see the audits carried out by companies or persons independent of the NFDC as I dont think that other member companies should be the ones to do the audits. It is now a fact that many larger construction companies and so forth are asking for its demolition providers to be NFDC members, whether you think that is right or wrong is an aside to the fact that quite often audits are carried out by local competitor companies and that I do believe leaves the door open for accusations of keeping others out.

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  • Registered: 04-09-2009
  • Posts: 46

Re: NFDC

I am sorry but I am inclined to agree with Bowser's contention that the main criticism of the NFDC (and any other trade body for that matter) tends to come from without rather than from within.

I would also draw your attention to the comment from a non-member (Mark Taylor at Metro Demolition to be precise) in the latest edition of Demolition & Dismantling magazine:

"...Under no circumstances should the NFDC lower its standards just to swell its numbers.   I represent a demolition company that aspires to the standards set by the NFDC, and I hope that one day we'll be able to achieve those standards and take our place within the Federation."

It would, of course, be naive to suggest that any trade organisation, company or individual is perfect; and I don't think anyone at the NFDC would claim that they are either.

But I really don't see how (or why) they can be criticised for trying to improve this industry.

  • Registered: 11-09-2010
  • Posts: 7

Re: NFDC

Having been a member of the Federation as a contractor since 1961 to my early retirement to take up the roll of the Federation Chief executive in 2005 you could say I am slightly biased but is that such a bad thing.
Anyway one thing that I can say with absolutely no contradiction is that the roll of the NFDC Chief Executive is very demanding and certainly not in the same  league as many of the large banking salaries we so often hear banded about.
The NFDC is now in its 70th year and proud of it, no easy task in these hard times. The federation has moved forward at significant pace in the last few years and I like to think my influence has helped drive and steer the Federation in the right direction.  The most significant development being the ASAS an independent audit of members site carried out not by Federation employees as suggest but by NEBOSH certificated auditors, every effort is made to ensure compliance with ISO 9001 procedures with ALL audits coming past my desk for evaluation, accreditation and auctioning as appropriate.
If the correspondent took the time to visit the Federation web site he would see several members that have failed the ASAS identified as awaiting a site clearly identified, in fact it was at the request of a main contractor that we reduced the status from ‘Probation to awaiting site audit’

The NFDC are already associate members of the SSiP and have been audited to ensure compliance, in fact the audit showed up some shortfalls in the Federation systems which have been actioned with additional questions incorporated within the members annual declaration  form. The next step is for the Federation scheme to become fully compliant with CHAS auditing criteria, independently audited of course.

Whilst the Federation welcomes new members, the high standard that have made the NFDC the respected ‘voice of the industry’ must and will be upheld, ALL membership applications are reviewed and checked with due diligence in strict accordance our ISO standards.   The Federation membership criteria is strictly upheld at all times unlike some organizations we have standards that must be upheld to gain and continue to hold Federation membership.   


Howard Button
Chief Executive
For & on Behalf of NFDC Ltd

  • Registered: 08-02-2011
  • Posts: 19

Re: NFDC

Just to make a point clear our company is not a member of the NFDC as yet but we are working towards it, have been members of the NDTG for years and will continue to strive to become full members.

As for this subject its an age old one which routinely gets dragged out of the cupboard by anti NFDC when they get bored or have nothing better to say in my opinion.

  • Registered: 08-02-2011
  • Posts: 19

Re: NFDC

Like I say we are not yet members and I can assure anyone that it is not a simple task to become a member of the NFDC, it takes time and input to reach the standard required and investment for many companies also.

We as a company have an exemplary safety record and a paperwork system that is a very high standard, we hold CHAS, Constructionline, ISO9001, ISO14001, NDTG membership amongst others and all of our men are trained for the industry we are in and the work that they do, our supervisors are also very highly trained with all of them holding CCDO, SSSTS & EPIC supervisor qualifications, I myself hold numerous qualifications including CCDO supervisor & manager, SSSTS amongst other things as well as attending training with the likes of Wayne Bagnall, John Woodward etc who are (whether you know them or not) very respected names in this industry and yet as a company we are still striving to achieve NFDC membership which is no easy task so until you actually know what you are talking about and actually have the experience of managing a company through the membership process please stop dismissing the NFDC.

The problems you have had are with the companies not the organisation and thats what employment law and tribunals are for, as for the NFDC I will say that at no time have they ever not given us great advice or put us in touch with someone who could, have you ever spoken to them for industry advice?  think we know the answer to that before you answer it and no point saying that you dont work for an NFDC company or similar as we arent either yet they have still helped and advised us.   

As I said in my first post on this subject "this is always going to be one of those things where people on the outside looking in will criticise what they dont fully know about or understand".

Once again I think you have shown us that what I quoted is correct unless you can come back with something solid that you know all about the NFDC and have spoken to them for advice and they failed you, if thats the case and you can prove it I will willingly write you a full and proper apology on here as a new subject for all to see.

  • Registered: 08-02-2011
  • Posts: 19

Re: NFDC

Wow you got me there Dig It man I laughed ................................ nearly.

You think my having an opinion on the NFDC in some way is me trying to benefit my company and its membership plans? Now that really is funny seeing as I used a name that nobody on here knows me by and have not mentioned the company, where we are based, not even which county we are in, so please explain to me how they will be able to attribute my opinions on the NFDC to our company?

Secondly nowhere have i said that they are the all singing, dancing, wonder of the demolition world etc etc and if you go back to my first post on this subject you will see that I have said there are things I personally would like to see changed and will openly admit that the NFDC is far from perfect.

BUT they do have the right thinking and are trying to implement things within the industry for the benefit of all those in it from the top brass to the guys doing the job on the floor, that is the right thing to do and they are trying to do it.

You keep banging on about the CPCS and the CPA they are not the NFDC.
Again ill state its the companies that you worked for who are at fault, im sure if you have evidence to the fact that you were dismissed for the reasons you state then you would have grounds for a tribunal for unfair dismissal.

Are you even aware that it is not law to have a competency card to operate plant? It is the required minimum by most principal conractors to show that the operator at least has the basic knowledge of how the piece of plant he is driving works. The rest is down to his employer to ensure he is competent and capable of doing the tasks they send him to do. If the main/principal contractor does not require competency cards for plant then that is down to them and the massive can of worms they will open up if the operator has an accident is their problem.

If you have been sacked twice for refusing to operate plant without a current competency card might I suggest that says something about the companies you are applying for jobs with?

Maybe with the talents you tell us you have you should be aiming for a seat with a much bigger more professional outfit.

  • Registered: 08-02-2011
  • Posts: 19

Re: NFDC

Your intelligence shines through once again I see.

46 companies in your working career whats that about 13months per company if you started at 15 and retired at 65 or a hell of a lot less if your under that age which im presuming you are so all I can say is your talents obviously made them all want to hang on to you.

Flash? where did that one come from.......

Annonymous because you always get one person like you on every site.

As I said a dinosaur that still cant see its a dinosaur even when it looks in the mirror and sees a dinosaur.

Last edited by Bowser (15-02-2011 15:39:06)

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  • Registered: 04-09-2009
  • Posts: 46

Re: NFDC

Gentlemen,
I was away from the office yesterday and didn't see this "discussion" spiraling out of control until I returned late last night.
This forum was created to enable and encourage frank and open debate within and about this industry of ours.   And while I realise that the demolition sector has many strong and forceful personalities, I did not invest in the creation of this forum to allow personal sniping and virtual brawling.
To my mind, social interaction should follow the same rules online as it does off; and I would like to think that such petty differences in opinion would not be settled face to face in such an ungentlemanly fashion.
For the time being, I am not planning to take any action; but I must insist that we set aside these apparent differences of opinion and start to use this Forum for the purpose for which it was created.
Thank you.

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  • Registered: 04-09-2009
  • Posts: 46

Re: NFDC

As you may have noticed, I have been back and edited the language on some of these posts.
It has been brought to my attention that there are children viewing these posts, something that I am very keen to encourage.
I realise that this is a very male industry; and I also realise that things can get a little heated at times.
But can I please ask you all to mind your p's and q's in future.
Many Thanks
Mark

  • Registered: 07-12-2010
  • Posts: 8

Re: NFDC

What everyone here has failed to notice is, if there was no NFDC there would be no annual ball, think about it people THINK!!!

Last edited by blowdown bob (29-06-2011 13:13:49)